tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-953110428551077275.post231703603062720..comments2023-07-15T08:04:55.400-07:00Comments on Michelle's Musings: On Multiplying and Replenishing: A compilation of counselUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-953110428551077275.post-77493977451202577742007-05-31T22:23:00.000-07:002007-05-31T22:23:00.000-07:00I didn't find much controversial material here...I didn't find much controversial material here. Am I just slow?<br><br><i>instead of asking—“Has this man a fine brick house, a span of fine horses and a fine carriage?”</i><br><br>Shoot. That's exactly what I asked about my husband...Alison Moore Smithhttp://www.mormonmomma.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-953110428551077275.post-1560718576335028802007-05-31T23:10:00.000-07:002007-05-31T23:10:00.000-07:00Alison, it wasn't meant to be controversial, j...Alison, it wasn't meant to be controversial, just informative, if that (maybe for some it won't be). :)m_and_mhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00552368137212513094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-953110428551077275.post-48121410685042119682007-06-01T12:12:00.000-07:002007-06-01T12:12:00.000-07:00I ended up with a weird edit of my comment. Seriou...I ended up with a weird edit of my comment. Seriously sorry.<br><br>First and foremost, I really loved the article and the scholarship that went into it. Great job of going to authoritative sources. It was a very interesting read and something I haven't thought of much lately. It was valuable information as I talk to my older kids.<br><br>Second, I was referring to the "A request for this post is not to shoot the messenger." I couldn't figure out why anyone would be tempted to do so. :) As far as child birth quoting goes, those seem pretty moderate and reasonable.<br><br>Still, I need to know where my husband keeps the carriage!Alison Moore Smithhttp://www.mormonmomma.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-953110428551077275.post-33117106592760974432007-06-01T14:58:00.000-07:002007-06-01T14:58:00.000-07:00Alison,No worries, and thanks for the follow-up. T...Alison,<br>No worries, and thanks for the follow-up. This is a topic that can tend to bring up strong feelings and so I was just covering my bases in case it happens to push someone's button. :) Maybe it won't, and if so, all the better. :)m_and_mhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00552368137212513094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-953110428551077275.post-45281570528821630562007-06-04T19:34:00.000-07:002007-06-04T19:34:00.000-07:00You are amazingly scholastic. I can't find qu...You are amazingly scholastic. I can't find quotes and concrete examples to save my life. I really need to develop that skill.SilverRainhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00580230961425635077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-953110428551077275.post-60218727029335653432007-06-08T17:12:00.000-07:002007-06-08T17:12:00.000-07:00m&m,Nice job pulling together a lot of materia...m&m,<br><br>Nice job pulling together a lot of material. <br><br>I think there still exists confusion among Church members whether or not birth control is permitted.<br><br>For example, here is a link to a webpage that claims, citing counsel from General Authorities, that "[a]ll public statements by Church leaders teach the same thing -- the use of birth control by Latter-day Saints is contrary to the will of God." It includes numerous quotes. http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/sexuality/birth_control.html#wjw<br><br>Another popular LDS site, Ask Gramps, seems to make a similar claim: http://www.askgramps.org/what-is-the-mormon-churchs-position-on-birth-control/<br><br>On the other hand, this byu newsnet piece seems to imply that the Church does not oppose birth control. http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/47736<br><br>DavidHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-953110428551077275.post-69567783229756701392007-06-08T21:09:00.000-07:002007-06-08T21:09:00.000-07:00It is always interesting to me how different peopl...It is always interesting to me how different people will view the same information in different ways, David. Part of the reason I wanted to pull together as many quotes as I could is so that people can see what is said and then make their own conclusions.<br><br>I think it's important to consider less the specifics and more the doctrine. The Spirit can guide us if we sincerely embrace the doctrine and seek to do God's will. <br><br>I am one who is not a particular fan of birth control. But I also believe that the Lord cares most about our hearts and motives. If you look at past quotes, note how the attitudes, sentiments, priorities, etc. are often what is in question. Even abstinence is a form of birth control and has its own costs. Our current leaders have recognized the value intimacy has in marriage for the marriage's sake (although that can definitely be used to justify selfish decisions as well). In the end, my feeling is that the leaders have never stopped teaching the same principles, the same doctrine. I don't believe a position on birth control methods per se is a doctrine (although I myself am not a particular fan of bc). But I believe multiplying and replenishing and the responsibility and commandment to bring children to our families has remained a constant.m_and_mhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00552368137212513094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-953110428551077275.post-50964317423743823162007-06-08T21:21:00.000-07:002007-06-08T21:21:00.000-07:00BTW, David, thanks for stopping by!And one more th...BTW, David, thanks for stopping by!<br><br>And one more thing...read carefully through the quotes. Why was birth control condemned? Is it about the methods per se or about the motives? I wonder sometimes if we might miss the mark by focusing too much on birth control as being about pills or other products and not see that so much of what the prophets have been focusing on is about staying on the path of the eternal plan, of having open hearts and lives so that the commandments can be fulfilled, about avoiding the trends of selfishness, unchastity, and other problems that are often tied to the use of birth control. But does that mean that every time birth control is used that sin is being committed? That's up for each couple to decide, but my feeling is that that won't always be the case. If a woman's health can be a consideration, and if the value of sexuality to a marriage is also recognized by our leaders (which is something current leaders have recognized more than past), isn't there sometimes room for something besides absolute answers?<br><br>Again, let me reiterate that I'm not a fan of bc. I fear given the concern about a falling birth rate that we might be making some mistakes collectively. But I've also seen enough situations where birth control was basically a necessity for health purposes that I cannot believe that its use alone can be condemned. And I believe that couples can make prayerful decisions, seeking God's direction in their decisions. I think there is room for us to make those decisions without having to have every specific spelled out. The doctrine should be enough of a motivator to guide us toward the right.m_and_mhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00552368137212513094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-953110428551077275.post-87448056170625009102007-06-09T20:51:00.000-07:002007-06-09T20:51:00.000-07:00m&m,One quotation that I have not seen in comp...m&m,<br><br>One quotation that I have not seen in compilations on Church statements on birth control is an excerpt from President Hinckley's devotional at BYU in 1983. Although it is outside the "window" period of your other quotations, it was spoken by the man who is now President of the Church, and is in substance incorporated into the Church Handbook of Instructions.<br><br>"I am offended by the sophistry that the only lot of the Latter-day Saint woman is to be barefoot and pregnant," he said. "It's a clever phrase, but it is false. Of course we believe in children. The Lord has told us to multiply and replenish the earth that we might have joy in our posterity, and there is no greater joy than the joy that comes of happy children in good families. But he did not designate the number, nor has the church. That is a sacred matter left to the couple and the Lord."<br><br>DavidHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-953110428551077275.post-37624275790850035912007-06-09T21:17:00.000-07:002007-06-09T21:17:00.000-07:00David,I would have been happy to include this so I...David,<br>I would have been happy to include this so I'm glad you shared it. I just really wanted to stick with the past 15 years so as to be more current. But I think that quote you share really summarizes how I think President Hinckley still feels. You note that none of the quotes listed include anything about numbers. (Past quotes (some long past) did on occasion.)m_and_mhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00552368137212513094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-953110428551077275.post-37004189575286832912007-06-15T21:56:00.000-07:002007-06-15T21:56:00.000-07:00This is a wonderful post.This is a wonderful post.torquatehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03473418430666497049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-953110428551077275.post-70314918262467630492007-06-15T22:08:00.000-07:002007-06-15T22:08:00.000-07:00bridger, Thanks for stopping by!bridger, <br>Thanks for stopping by!m_and_mhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00552368137212513094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-953110428551077275.post-12842435238766999932007-06-25T11:19:00.000-07:002007-06-25T11:19:00.000-07:00I just stopped by to read this. I thank you for y...I just stopped by to read this. I thank you for your thoughts. As being someone that has had to use BC for my health, it is also the reason I have at least one of my 4 children. <br>The only time I have been offended is when I am told I am going to be condemned because I am causing abortions. I can not say that is true or not. I only know that with all the times I tried to have children I can't imagine God having me loose a child when I am taking care of my health and wellbeing. <br><br>As you said, I think the problem is in the intent. If a couple uses BC methods to plan their family, not limit their family and do so with prayer and faith, there should not be a problem. <br><br>Thanks for your well thought out and supported post. It was a fresh of breath air to read from someone that is not a fan of it, but understands it, and is not out to condemn the rest of us out there.Tigersuehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10375000801423259917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-953110428551077275.post-76933689199853684222007-06-27T00:06:00.000-07:002007-06-27T00:06:00.000-07:00A very good topic m&m. Space is full of intell...A very good topic m&m. Space is full of intelligences that need the experience and chances that come with earth life. We have spirits waiting for that opportunity. If we are unable to help them then our conscience is clear. But if we do nothing to provide that chance (having the health to do so) after we have it, where is our heart? How can we expect to be Gods or Godesses when the work they do is having countless children for this very same purpose?Doug Towershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17119162546723347214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-953110428551077275.post-66635134445329632662007-09-16T08:27:00.000-07:002007-09-16T08:27:00.000-07:00I do remember reading an account from a GA (possib...I do remember reading an account from a GA (possibly a prophet?) where he said BC was permissible in cases where genetic disorders existed, i.e., you had a child that was handicapped. I do think that was from a long time ago. <br><br>So at least acording to the church, there are other circumstances where it can be used than just the woman's health.<br><br>And sometimes a "woman's health" doesn't just mean her physical health.Sariah Wilsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06606312014221875944noreply@blogger.com